Legislature(2005 - 2006)SENATE FINANCE 532
05/02/2005 06:00 PM Senate FINANCE
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB130 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | HB 130 | TELECONFERENCED | |
MINUTES
SENATE FINANCE SUBCOMMITTEE HB 130/SB 96
May 2, 2005
6:03 p.m.
CALL TO ORDER
Co-Chair Wilken convened the meeting at approximately 6:03:28 PM.
PRESENT
Subcommittee Members:
Senator Gary Wilken, Co-Chair
Senator Fred Dyson
Senator Lyman Hoffman
Other Senate Finance Committee Members:
Senator Bert Stedman
Senator Donny Olson
Also Attending: Testifiers are listed in the order they testified.
SUMMARY INFORMATION
SB 96-UNIVERSITY LAND GRANT/STATE FOREST
HB 130-UNIVERSITY LAND GRANT/STATE FOREST
The subcommittee heard from the Department of Natural Resources and
members of the public. The bill was held in the subcommittee.
6:04:08 PM
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 96(RES)
"An Act relating to the grant of certain state land to the
University of Alaska and establishing the university research
forest; and providing for an effective date."
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 130(FIN) am
"An Act relating to the grant of certain state land to the
University of Alaska; relating to the duties of the Board of
Regents; establishing the university research forest; and
providing for an effective date."
Co-Chair Wilken noted the written testimony available for members'
review.
BOB LOEFFLER, Director, Division of Mining, Land and Water,
Department of Natural Resources, testified via teleconference from
an offnet location, that this legislation represents significant
efforts. The University of Alaska was created as a land-based
institution. For a state with such a significant expanse of land,
Alaska's university has received limited acreage. SB 7 was adopted
several sessions prior, but was expensive, at $17 million, was time
consuming and did not provide much land. This legislation would
provide 63 parcels and transfer approximately 250,000 acres to the
University to make the University of Alaska a true land grant
university. This effort would match federal land transfer efforts
underway by US Senator Ted Stevens. These efforts would result in
revenue potential and would provide a strong education base for
research and other educational purposes.
Mr. Loeffler pointed out changes have been made to the original
version of this bill were made during the extensive committee
hearing process undertaken in the Senate and House of
Representatives. This includes the elimination of nine parcels
initially selected, eight located in Southeastern Alaska and one in
Kodiak. Four other parcels would be placed in a holding status
pending formation of a borough in the Wrangell and Petersburg area.
A provision was also added to this bill to hold municipal
entitlements harmless for any land transferred to the University so
municipal land entitlement claims would not be decreased.
Mr. Loeffler continued that two parcels would be placed on hold to
ensure that Native allotments were protected and includes Native
allotments in the list of possessory interests of existing rights.
The committee substitute establishes a "significantly more
substantial" public process to ensure that when the University
develops the land, it "works with locals in doing so". It also
would allow the Department of Natural Resources to make minor
boundary adjustments for errors and omissions to protect public
access, reserve waterlines, water sheds and other factors that
could be discovered in the title search process.
Mr. Loeffler concluded that this legislation "ends the discussion"
started with the passage of SB 7, in a manner that would be less
expensive. The cost would be less than five percent of the cost
projected to implement SB 7.
6:11:34 PM
Senator Dyson understood some communities are considering formation
into a borough in the future. Some of the land selections would
preclude the borough from acquiring necessary land. He asked if the
legislation provides any remedy for this.
6:12:10 PM
Mr. Loeffler replied that with respect to the potential borough
formation in the area surrounding the communities of Wrangell and
Petersburg, a number of parcels are "on hold" and would only
transfer to the University if a borough is not formed or does not
select those parcels in its formation process. The borough, within
a specified timeframe, would have first option to select those
parcels. In addition, concerns expressed that the transfer of any
acreage to the University could reduce the amount of municipal
entitlement land selection. This committee substitute would ensure
that municipal entitlements would be calculated to prevent this.
6:13:03PM
Senator Dyson understood that only three parcels located near the
community of Pelican and that residents were "not anxious that they
be off the table."
6:13:18 PM
Mr. Loeffler replied that the Pelican, Mite Cove and Idaho Inlet
parcels were eliminated from consideration for transfer to the
University.
6:13:46 PM
Senator Hoffman referenced the witness statement that this bill
involves 63 parcels totaling approximately 250,000 acres. However,
the written information provided by the Department lists 260,000
acres. He asked which amount is accurate.
6:14:17 PM
Mr. Loeffler responded that the original bill proposed the transfer
of 260,000 acres. This committee substitute eliminated nine parcels
and "holds" other parcels for potential future borough selection.
6:14:33 PM
Senator Hoffman requested a list of the nine parcels removed from
consideration.
6:14:39 PM
Mr. Loeffler replied that page 6 of the current committee
substitute lists these parcels. The following Section // lists
those parcels held for possible future transfer to a borough.
6:14:54 PM
Co-Chair Wilken clarified the subcommittee was considering CS HB
130 (FIN) am, 24-GH1034\X.A.
6:15:43 PM
MARY IRVINE, Juneau resident, testified via teleconference from an
offnet location while out of state for family funeral. She stressed
the importance of archeological sites; particularly Sumdum located
about 40 miles south of Juneau. These sites should be "flagged" and
preferably removed from consideration of transfer to the University
of Alaska. She detailed the pre-Tlingit history of this early
settlement and other discoveries in Southeastern Alaska. She noted
that less than 15 minutes of testimony has been heard on the Sumdum
site. If not exempted, she requested that the Archeological
Protection Act be applied to all lands transferred to the
University. This would address concerns of archeologists and
historians.
6:24:56 PM
Co-Chair Wilken asked if this testimony has been given to other
legislative committees hearing this legislation.
6:25:12 PM
Ms. Irvine informed that Representative Beth Kerttula raised the
issue on the floor of the House of Representatives.
6:25:33 PM
Co-Chair Wilken indicated he would request the Department address
reasons why this parcel could not be removed from consideration.
6:26:33 PM
JON BOLLING testified via teleconference from Craig, to the
identified parcels in Naukati, Port Deloris, El Capitan North and
El Capitan South, Thorne Bay and other sites on Prince of Wales
Island. The identified site in Naukati comprises of most of the
community's waterfront property. Maintaining State ownership of the
Thorne Bay parcel would allow logging activities for economic
development. He suggested that a land transfer to the University of
Alaska include similar provisions as the transfer of lands to the
Mental Health Trust Authority.
6:29:21 PM
Co-Chair Wilken located the sites on a map of Southeastern Alaska.
6:30:11 PM
MICHAEL KAMPNICH testified via teleconference from Craig that
although he supported transfer of lands to the University of
Alaska, he questioned the transfer of lands located in Southeast
Alaska. The economic impact and environmental oversight of such
transfers has not been adequately considered. Other options would
provide a funding source for the University that would not have the
same impact.
6:32:35 PM
JASON ESLER, Cultural Anthropologist, testified via teleconference
from an offnet location in Illinois, that he has been conducting
research near McCarthy. This research indicates that the proposed
land transfer would have significant impact on the subsistence
activities of rural Alaskans in this area. Decreasing available
resources and increasing population would hamper the ability of
McCarthy residents to subsist. Access to the proposed sites is not
adequate.
6:36:29 PM
JENNIFER PRICE, Sitka Resident, testified via teleconference from
an offnet location in opposition to the legislation. Her greatest
concern was the selection of 40,000 acres in Southeast Alaska, many
of which have been designated as Disbursed Recreation (RU) wildlife
by the Department of Natural Resources. She asked specifically if
the 250 acres near Warm Springs Bay on Baranof Island has been
removed from consideration.
Co-Chair Wilken affirmed the current committee substitute does not
include this parcel.
Ms. Price suggested the University be granted sites with potential
for oil development, as that would provide sufficient funding.
6:39:48 PM
ALBERT PAGH, Owner and Operator, Four Star Lumber, testified via
teleconference from Fairbanks, that Governor Murkowski promised to
facilitate resource development. This legislation would result in
the opposite. He detailed forestry issues and past decisions by the
University to not allow logging in certain areas despite pest
infestation.
6:43:47 PM
DEB SPENCER, Pelican Resident and Owner, Shoreline Corporation,
testified in Juneau to clarify that the Pelican parcels are
excluded in the current committee substitute version. These lands
are too important to communities to allow transfer without adequate
public input. She compared this to US Senator Ted Stevens'
complaints when East Coast residents attempt to make decisions
regarding Alaskan lands. This legislation would leave northern
Chichagof Island with no public lands available for municipal
entitlement claims. She stated that the process in considering this
bill has required communities to "cry the loudest" to have their
concerns addressed. She requested that additional public testimony
and community input be garnered in this process. She questioned the
University's lobbying budget.
6:48:46 PM
Co-Chair Wilken clarified the witness concern is with parcels
located near Pelican. Her business has had a tidal lease in Mite
Cove.
6:49:37 PM
Senator Hoffman asked the purpose of the business.
6:49:46 PM
Ms. Spencer stated her company purchases troll caught salmon.
6:50:00 PM
VERN HALTER, Willow resident, testified in Juneau that the
community of Willow has major concerns with lands selected for
transfer near Willow. He agreed with the previous testifier that
this legislation is "pitting one community against another". He
told of the historic Haessler-Norris Trail System, which is the
oldest dog sled trail in Alaska. Parcels identified for transfer to
the University are located where this trail crosses and development
of those parcels would eliminate use of the trail. He noted the
Community of Willow adopted a resolution in relation to this bill.
6:55:21 PM
Co-Chair Wilken asked if the Department had the trail maps provided
by this witness.
6:55:38 PM
Senator Hoffman asked the age of the trail systems.
6:55:48 PM
Mr. Halter estimated the trapping trail systems have been used
since the 1940s. He elaborated on the consequences of developing
lots in this area.
6:56:47 PM
JOANN BRODIE, Alaska Conservation Alliance, testified via
teleconference from Kodiak in opposition of the bills. Land
granting is not the most economic method to fund the University.
Some of the selected parcels are poor choices. The affected
communities must be considered.
6:58:01 PM
Co-Chair Wilken asked if the witness spoke to the Rocket Range
parcel.
Ms. Brodie understood that parcel has been removed from
consideration. She retained her objection statewide to this
legislation.
6:58:32 PM
ERIN MCLARNON testified via teleconference from Mat-Su in
opposition to the inclusion of the Frying Pan Lake parcel. The
University should receive the funds it needs "in the present" not
through land appropriations. She told of her dog-training
activities on the historic trail system near Willow, which is used
for Iditarod training.
7:01:08 PM
GARVIN BUCARIA testified via teleconference from Mat-Su that he
opposes this legislation. He supports education and supports an
endowment to the University. He attended a municipal assembly
meeting in which natural gas development was discussed. A pipeline
would be constructed for transport of this resource and the
University should not become involved as a third party landowner in
this effort. He spoke to the fish spawning activities in Auk Lake
in Juneau and he questioned the University's practices to conduct
research and protect the environment. The State has yet to receive
the entire allocation it is entitled to and should not transfer
lands until this has been accomplished.
7:04:48 PM
Co-Chair Wilken understood the witness' concerns relate to the Auk
Weir parcel.
Mr. Bucaria added the Nenana Oil and Gas Province.
7:05:11 PM
JIM DRENNAN, Anchorage resident, testified via teleconference from
an offnet location about his concerns about the Baranof Warm
Springs parcel, which was removed from consideration.
7:06:32 PM
Co-Chair Wilken interjected there is no intention to include that
parcel in future versions of the legislation.
Mr. Drennan appreciated this information.
7:07:01 PM
KELLY BAY, 30-year resident of McCarthy, testified via
teleconference from an offnet location about the changes to the
area over the years. He has yet to hear any public support for this
legislation. The community of McCarthy is surrounded by national
park land with the only buffer being the lands selected for
transfer to the University. Residents experience difficulties in
accessing areas for hunting, firewood gathering and other needs.
The Department of Natural Resources did not adequately investigate
community impacts. The University should be funded though a
generous revenue stream and should not be required to manage funds.
7:10:56 PM
Co-Chair Wilken asked the ownership of the excluded parcels in the
McCarthy area.
AT EASE 7:11:26 PM / 7:11:48 PM
7:11:50 PM
[Teleconference difficulties.]
7:13:08 PM
KARLA HART testified via teleconference from Juneau that she and
her parents are University of Alaska alumni. She opposed this
legislation. This bill creates a laundry list of expenses not
included in the fiscal notes: access, public safety and emergency
services, demand for infrastructure, schools, etc. many of which
require significant subsidies. The language of page 7, line 13-16
of the committee substitute was of concern relating to "laws of the
state" and she detailed this would allow a person to acquire this
land and retain any profits.
7:18:49 PM
Co-Chair Wilken asked the ownership of the land in the McCarthy
area.
Mr. Loeffler indicated he would provide this information.
7:19:16 PM
MICHELLE NILAND testified via teleconference from Mat-Su to answer
that this is private property, some of which is old homestead land.
The University owns a portion and some is identified by US Senator
Lisa Murkowski for transfer to the National Park Service.
7:20:14 PM
JULIE HURSEY, Charter Boat Operator, testified via teleconference
from Petersburg about her concern that the lands would not be
developed as the University intends. This land should be held in
trust, as it has been used for hunting, fishing and recreation for
generations. Tourism activities also occur in these areas. She
takes clients to many of these areas, including Sumdum. She cited
earlier testimony from the Joe Beedle of the University of Alaska,
stating that if all the lots were sold and developed, the
University would receive one-percent of its annual budget from this
source. If passed, she requested that the RU sites be removed from
consideration.
7:23:41 PM
DORIS BAILEY, Assembly Member, City and Borough of Sitka, testified
via teleconference from Sitka that the Assembly has unanimously
opposed this legislation. The residents of Sitka are concerned
about this bill. The University already controls significant
amounts of land in the Sitka Borough and the Mental Health Trust
Authority owns other properties. This legislation does not
stipulate that the University must follow local land use
regulations. She asked if the Federal Aviation Administration has
approved the proposed transfer of parcels on Biorka Island. She was
also concerned about Native allotments and knew of the presence of
artifacts on the Island.
7:28:06 PM
Co-Chair Wilken requested an answer to Ms. Bailey's questions
relating to Biorka Island.
7:28:14 PM
Mr. Loeffler assumed the federal government is aware of the
proposed transfer on Biorka Island.
7:28:32 PM7:28:32 PM
MARI MONTGOMERY, Director of Lands, University of Alaska, did not
find any information on Native Allotment on the Island.
7:28:59 PM
JOHN HERCHENRIDER testified via teleconference from Sitka that land
in Southeastern Alaska forms the basis of economic development in
this portion of the State. Commercial fishers come from Washington
and Oregon because the fish thrive in the pristine environment.
Tourism is viable in the region because of this pristine
environment and would be priceless if left undeveloped while the
rest of the world continues to be overdeveloped.
7:31:08 PM
WILMA STOKES, Wrangell Cooperative Association, testified via
teleconference from Wrangell that the Corporation is opposed to
this legislation. She told of the historical, cultural and sacred
land of Thom's Place.
7:32:55 PM
VALERY MCCANDLESS, Mayor, City of Wrangell, testified via
teleconference from Wrangell, on behalf of many Wrangell residents
to their concerns about the limited public process. Many residents
would be willing to discuss potential sites for transfer with the
University. She listed selected sites in the Wrangell area and
described the economic reliance on these areas. She told of the
Tlingit history in some areas and the important archeological
sites.
7:35:35 PM
BOB LESHER testified via teleconference in Juneau that more
testifying time is necessary. Land near the Parks Highway would be
more beneficial for development. This bill is not about funding the
University, but rather an effort to transfer public land to private
ownership without community input. Lands near smaller communities
are selected for the benefit of communities with larger populations
and more voter power.
DENNIS WATSON, Mayor, City of Craig, testified via teleconference
in Juneau that more homework should have been done on this
legislation. The City of Craig is opposed to this bill. He
supported funding the University, but surmised there are better
options. He questioned that this would provide significant income.
The University should have participated in the municipal lands
selection process; many issues could have been avoided.
7:41:37 PM
Co-Chair Wilken asked if the 2009 provision, which would allow
local governments formed after this bill's passage to have an
option to select lands, should be extended.
7:41:49 PM
Mr. Watson answered it would be beneficial.
7:42:10 PM
Co-Chair Wilken asked how long the extension should be.
7:42:15 PM
Mr. Watson suggested an additional five years.
7:43:06 PM
DALE PIHLMAN testified via teleconference from Ketchikan to his
concerns with the selection of the Hook Arm parcels near Ketchikan.
Any development to the areas used for dive fisheries would increase
the e-coli levels and close the fisheries.
7:45:32 PM
JOAN BRYNER, Willow resident, testified via teleconference from
Mat-Su on behalf of the dog mushing community about the extensive
trail system in the Frying Pan Lake area used by many mushers. The
local economy would be negatively impacted if the mushing
opportunities were eliminated because those residents would
relocate.
7:48:43 PM
MICHELLE NILAND testified via teleconference from Mat-Su that the
community of McCarthy is not anti-development. The residents of the
community support the University. She indicated US Senator Lisa
Murkowski's efforts to transfer lands currently owned by the
University to the National Park Service. The University has
invested in the acres it already owns. This legislation would
benefit the National Park Service rather than the University. The
University should be funded through other means.
7:51:08 PM
MELINDA HOFTAD, part-time resident of Petersburg and Warm Springs
Bay, testified via teleconference from an offnet location that she
appreciated the removal of the Warm Springs Bay parcel, as it
included the watershed used by residents. She retained concerns
about lands identified in the Petersburg area. Language to allow
for lands to be claimed in the event of borough formation is not
adequate. Not one public testifier has expressed support for this
legislation. She questioned the progression of the bills given the
lack of support from the public and local elected officials. Both
her children have attended the University and she supports it's
efforts. This legislation has harmed the University's public
relations.
7:55:26 PM
JOE BEEDLE, University of Alaska testified via teleconference from
an offnet location that he is available to answer questions on
behalf of the University.
7:55:55 PM
LORI ROLAND testified via teleconference from an offnet location in
McCarthy that she and her husband attended the University of
Alaska. They operate a contracting business and have bought and
sold University lands. She opposed the land transfer and the
federal companion legislation to transfer University-owned land to
the National Park Service. Her business holds a gravel extraction
contract on the State land, which would be eliminated. Access to
her home is through this land and would be denied. Other lifestyle
activities are dependant on the State-owned land, including
trapping, hunting, and firewood gathering. The residents do not
have a positive relationship with the National Park Service, but
does have a good relationship with the Department of Natural
Resources and the elected officials that oversee it.
8:00:03 PM
PAUL BARRETT, Grandson of John Barrett, founder of McCarthy,
testified via teleconference from an offnet location that the
initial legislation would have transferred the land to the
University. He had surmised the University would then sell parcels
to individuals; however, inadequate assess and infrastructure would
make this unfeasible. The ecology is fragile and could not support
increased population and use. Has no dislike of the Park employees,
but this bill could not possibly help McCarthy.
8:03:34 PM
NANCY COOK testified via teleconference from an offnet site and
echoed the testimony of those who have witnessed first hand the way
the University has managed their lands. They are pretty much hands
off. The level of development of the land is overwhelming. The land
is precious as it is under the management of Department of Natural
Resources. While she supports the National Park Service, it is
tightening access to lands, which are valued as State recreation
land.
8:06:31 PM
Senator Hoffman asked if the witness has collected a permanent fund
dividend.
Ms. Cook has not.
8:06:46 PM
Ms. Cook corrected she has received dividend for 14 years before
moving out of the State.
8:07:52 PM
SARAH LUNDSTEDT testified via teleconference from Sitka to request
this bill not be passed. If it is passed, she requested the removal
of all Sitka-area parcels. The loss to fishing and tourism
industries could not be offset if this occurred. The selection of
these lands was done "behind closed doors" and without public
input, although some parcels incorrectly included have been
removed. The University has proven to be a poor steward of lands.
Friends attending and working at the University are appalled to be
linked to this legislation.
8:10:46 PM
GAYLE GROSS testified via teleconference from Wrangell that she is
a long-term Wrangell resident and "works with fish". She was
concerned about the impact on the salmon habitat in Olive Cove.
Every effort should be made to keep fish habitat healthy. The
University would develop the lands to generate revenue as intended
by this legislation. Although the Olive Cove land could be
incorporated in the formation of a borough, it would be a lengthy
process.
8:14:11 PM
ROBERT PRUNELLA, Manager, City of Wrangell, testified via
teleconference from Wrangell to thank Senator Stedman for his
efforts in representing the communities. Municipal officials are
undertaking efforts at borough formation and he requested Thom's
Place parcels be included in those lands available for local
entitlement
8:15:52 PM
RICK KENYON testified via teleconference from an offnet location in
McCarthy that the University sold 46 lots in the area and access to
these lots are limited to traveling across only two lots. Much of
the remaining lots could not be developed because the National Park
Service impedes efforts. He questioned the transfer of additional
lands to the National Park Service.
8:18:47 PM
Co-Chair Wilken requested Ms. Montgomery address the issue.
8:19:03 PM
Ms. Montgomery replied that several years prior, US Senator Frank
Murkowski introduced legislation to transfer lands to the
University. The University does not support the transfer of its
McCarthy lands in exchange for other federal lands. However, the
federal government could acquire lands through condemnation.
8:20:48 PM
JIM SLATER testified via teleconference from an offnet location to
request the parcels around Lisianski Inlet be excluded from this
legislation. These lands were designated as RU after considerable
public process. If transferred to the University, this designation
would be eliminated. The impact of the addition of private lots
given the limited public land available for borough formation would
be detrimental. Local residents have signed a petition in
opposition to this legislation.
8:23:17 PM
DAN TRAIL testified via teleconference from Wrangell to reiterate
he is opposed to this bill, in particular to the inclusion of all
Wrangell area parcels including Thom's Place. He suggested a vote
be taken of all who have testified on this legislation, which would
settle the matter.
8:24:20 PM
DAWN HUTCHINSON testified via teleconference from Wrangell on
behalf of herself, her ancestors and her descendants, in opposition
to this legislation. She told of the cultural significance of the
historic lands near Thom's Place. The impact to the Tlingit
community would be devastating.
8:26:18 PM
MIKE SALLEE testified via teleconference from Ketchikan that he is
apprehensive toward this bill, particularly areas near Ketchikan.
He was concerned that limitations to logging activities would be
detrimental to local harvesters, such as himself. The land would be
sold to the highest bidders and local operators would not be able
to participate. He referenced the language stipulating that the
Board of Regents would have oversight of the land. He asked how the
regents are selected.
8:29:16 PM
Co-Chair Wilken replied that the regents are appointed by the
Governor and confirmed by the legislature.
8:29:39 PM
JANET BURLESON-BAXTER, Legislative Liaison, Department of Natural
Resources, testified that the Department of Natural Resources
manages land owned by the State of Alaska.
8:29:59 PM
Mr. Sallee asked if a commissioner or a team manages the lands.
8:30:09 PM
Ms. Burleson-Baxter explained that the Division of Mining, Land and
Water manages those lands.
8:30:35 PM
Mr. Sallee asked why the lands could not be sold by the Department
of Natural Resources with the proceeds appropriated directly to the
University.
8:30:54 PM
Co-Chair Wilken indicated the matter would be given consideration
at a later date.
8:31:06 PM
Mr. Sallee referenced written testimony he has submitted and
reiterated the he opposes this legislation.
8:31:29 PM
MIKE REEVES testified via teleconference from an offnet location in
Hollis that two parcels in the Hollis area have been identified and
should be eliminated. The parcels include a watershed. The public
process has been excluded from this legislation. He spoke to the
lack of democracy in this process.
8:35:54 PM
CHRISTINE LUNDSTEDT testified via teleconference from an offnet
location about the difficulty her neighbors have in understanding
the process involving this legislation. She spoke to the extensive
testimony in opposition. Legislators are the only voice of the
people and should not "across the board, ignore" the public's
needs. She has a tourism business dependant upon lands.
8:40:15 PM
Co-Chair Wilken asked if the witness has concerns about specific
lands.
8:40:33 PM
Ms. Lundstedt replied the parcels in Southeast Alaska should be
excluded if the bill were passed.
ADJOURNMENT
Co-Chair Wilken adjourned the meeting at 08:41 PM
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